How Adult is Young Adult?

[jl_merrow]

I ask, because I recently found a review in YA M/M Books of my novella Pricks and Pragmatism.  Needless to say, I was rather chuffed – but it also got me thinking.  Because although P&P keeps poor Luke and Russell at arm’s length for much of the book – it’s been described as having UST you could cut with a knife *g* – they do actually get some, ahem, relief at the end.  

Furthermore, Luke isn’t entirely celibate before then…

I’d always assumed YA books shouldn’t contain graphically described sex.  After all, aren’t YA readers, well, generally less than 18 years old?  Or at least (because I’ve read and enjoyed quite a few YA books) isn’t that the age range aimed at?

So how much sex is acceptable in a YA book?  I’d be interested to hear what people think.

 

And in other news: a couple of reviews, one for an older story, Becoming the Spoils (My joky Polish plumber vampire short; I think she liked it!):

I’ve had some mixed reactions to some of this author’s work, but one thing I can usually count on is strong writing – Book Utopia Mom

…and a nice one for Muscling Through from a site that’s new to me, Joyfully Jay:

Beautifully written from a really interesting and unusual perspective.  I loved the characters and their relationship – Joyfully Jay

Comments

[alex-beecroft.livejournal.com]

I'm fairly confused about the whole thing - what stops young adults from reading adult books, after all? I'd hate a world in which cashiers stopped you at the tills with a "that book's for over 18s only, I'm afraid we can't let you have it." OTOH, yes, I would assume that books aimed at an under 18 readership would have less sex, or sex described less graphically. But perhaps whoever reviewed P&P for them felt it did?

[jl_merrow]

what stops young adults from reading adult books, after all?
Well, indeed. Although it's a slightly odd situation, to have age categories on DVDs and not on books.

It's true P&P isn't as graphic as a lot of m/m books - and could even be described as having a moral message!

[minervasolo.livejournal.com]

I read a lot of stuff with graphic sex before I was eighteen, but I was aware the books were intended for an over eighteen audience. When it came to stuff actually aimed at me, though there was sometimes graphic descriptions of sex I don't think it was intended to arouse the way erotica does. How precisely one decides whether a sex scene is intended for narrative realism and descriptive purposes vs arousal I'm not entirely sure.

[jl_merrow]

Ah, that's an interesting distinction, between "erotic" and "realistic" sex. And in fact two of the sex scenes in P&P are not actually intended to be erotic, because they're about Luke trying to scratch the itch that living with Russell (but not being with him) is causing.

[tracykitn.livejournal.com]

I think ultimately, that's more of a question for the parents rather than the author/publisher. I was reading my aunt's bodice rippers when I was fourteen, but I have friends whose parents sheltered them from books with even the *mention* of kissing until they got to college. I think about what I'd be willing to discuss w/ my daughter. Kids have sex; they know about it; I don't understand why it's so avoided in YA/teen stories.

[jl_merrow]

It seems a bit daft, to me, to pretend kids don't get up to stuff - but I can understand parents not wanting to expose their kids to sex in books. I can also understand YA publishers being a bit leery of including overly graphic material in books specifically marketed at teenagers.

I'd always imagined, in fact, that YA books were supposed to be a "safe haven" where parents could be fairly confident they didn't need to worry about content - perhaps I was just naive in that.

[tracykitn.livejournal.com]

The problem with avoiding subjects like that in YA is that some important stuff is being avoided. Is it better to not address sex in books at all, and have their information come from their friends? Because most schools are NOT teaching safe sex (at least in the US). At least in the romance genre as a whole, there's a certain sense of "saving yourself for The One," and in contemporaries there's usually a focus on safe sex as well. Granted relationships at the YA level are not generally lifetime loves, but generally they're more-or-less monogamous and long-term, and it seems to me that anything that reinforces that as a safe relationship model (especially if it can show a relationship as being a part of a healthy life without being an entire life's focus) is just as appropriate for a teenager as it is for an adult.

Perhaps the question should be less "How much sex should there be in YA?" and more "What *kind* of sex should there be in YA?" My answer would be: safe, monogamous, not a huge amount. But there definitely CAN be some, without hitting my buttons.

[jl_merrow]

I think you make an excellent point about "what kind of sex?"
I'd definitely agree with your criteria there.

I presume it's the influence of religious groups in the US that stops schools teaching safe sex? It seems a bit of a head-in-the-sand attitude to take.

[tracykitn.livejournal.com]

I think so; and you're right. Not only is it head-in-the-sand, but it's primarily a single religious group; the "Christian Coalition," with the most political heft, and allowing them to dictate policy at that level, to me, is a blatant disregard of the "Separation of Church and State" policy that the entire US government is supposed to have been built on. I know of many, many parents who have banded together to hire a nurse to give their kids a "safe sex" class -- complete with putting condoms on bananas -- just to make sure their kids know what's what. When time comes, I may do the same; we're living in the Bible Belt and God only knows what random and weird ideas are floating around the schools down here.

[josephine-myles.livejournal.com]

I don't think the sex in P&P is particularly graphic, so I reckon it could squeeze into the racier end of the YA spectrum. The scene with Luke and the guy in the toilets is obviously not written to arouse, and then the one at the end is oral and therefore for some reason more acceptable. I'm not sure why anal sex is seen as more graphic than oral, but it seems to be the way these things go.

You know that if I'd been your beta reader back then, I'd have suggested you put more sex into P&P, don't you?! ;P

[jl_merrow]

LOL! You're a bad, bad influence! ;D

Actually, thinking about it, the sex in P&P carries a bit of a moral message - Luke finds that shagging around is ultimately unfulfilling. I'm just an old-fashioned gal at heart! ;)

[storyfan.livejournal.com]

It all depends on how stores and libraries stock the books. YA to a library in a city might not be considered YA in a town as small as mine.

The typical YA book might have some sex scenes, but they'd be sort of fade-to-black, I would think. If that's the market a writer is shooting for, I'm guessing that's the way the story would have to be written. Otherwise, the book will be stocked in the adult fiction section.

Online reviewers of M/M books might look at things differently than libraries or the one major bookstore chain we have left. Their attitudes are probably more liberal simply because they can get away with reccing more graphic stuff to teens than a taxpayer-funded library can. Libraries sometimes have difficulty stocking any gay/lesbian literature, so I'm sure they have to be very careful about what they do, lest they upset parents and taxpayers.

My opinions are just speculative, of course. Interesting discussion.

[jl_merrow]

Oh, interesting point. Yes, I imagine there are all kinds of pressures on libraries, in part because, as you say, they're funded by the taxpayer.

By the way, the owner of the YA m/m site commented over on my Wordpress blog here: http://jlmerrow.wordpress.com/2011/09/21/how-adult-is-young-adult/#comment-9

As you'll see, he makes the same point you do about regional variations in acceptability for the content of YA books. :)